My next tournie list

so I've got a 1750 team tournie (team as in you have a load of 1v1 matches against another team of 4) and I' contemplating dropping nids for it.

Reason being is that there are up to 8 additional vps to be awarded in every game for kill points - so running tervigons is going to work against me, and there is little else to choose from in the troops section that would leave me with a competitive list. Don't wanna use necrons as I wanna try and keep them as a non-competitive army. Which leaves me with blood angels.

The recent tourney I played has taught me there is a lot of s8 and AP3 out there so I'm thinking of doing a flyer/ drop pod list with BA and allied SM - if taff is agreeable as I'd be asking to borrow his stormraven :-)

I'm gonna need to see what models tony has as I'll throw some of his crimson fists in there as well but something along the lines of:

BA

Librarian (Blood lance, unleash range) - changing for diviation if not many vehicles

Troop
5 man assault squad
5 man assault squad
10 tacs w/ missile laucher

Elite
furioso dread w/ frag canon & drop pod

Heavy
Storm raven
Storm raven

Fortification

Bastion w/ icarus lascannon

allied space marines

captain w/ terminator armour powerfist

troop - 5 sniper rifle scouts w/ camocloaks
FA - stormtalon

there's still some points to play with in there and suject to flux depending on what odels I can get y grubby mits on but as a basic outline what do you think?

When is the tournament?

You are more than welcome to borrow my entire marine army if need be. But, in case the sale happens before you take them, you had better let me know as they may be in storage!

In terms of the list I think there are better. I think the main thing to remember is that the Storm Raven has a high transport capacity and is an assault vehicle. A drop pod is not.

If you intend to take the Furiso you would be better using one of the storm ravens to deliver him straight into battle. And if you are doing it for him then use the assault marines in there too.

I also fail to see what the tactical squad is there for. Perhaps swapping them for devestators with the libby? Rerolling the hits on them is quite nice and is a cheaper option. Off the top of my head I believe you would save 55 points between the drop pods and the tacticals. This could be used to either increase the size of an assault squad or even buy a razor back for the 5 man squad.

I'm also struggling to see what the captain in termie armour is for. Surely a libby with prescience attached to the scouts would be better? I think you gain 30 odd points there which is maybe 2 more scouts? Or maybe 2 more assault marines in the blood angels army.

Then we come to what perplexes me most about this army - why the Bastian? I fail to see what this offers to this army that is additonally useful. I think they are 200 points? Surely a shooty dread or librarian dread would be better added. You do get a cover save and the guns but I suspect that if two storm ravens cannot beat the fliers why would 4 additional shots matter?

Well there's my two pence worth!

it's a two dayer around weeked of April 21st.

The idea with the furioso is to provide an assault 2 S6 rending flamer to the back lines on turn 1, hence the drop pod rather than a storm raven - the assault marines would ride in the ravens to come down later on and assualt onto objectives to capture/ contest.

the tactical squad and bastion are there to defend backfield objectives - the terminator armour captain would attach to them to give them a save tanker although I'd keep them out of LOS with the bastion if poss. The bastion also gives me and extra lascannon on top which the scout. It also adds the AV14 headache and the bastion is 130 pts with the icarus on it (I don't have much choice with that as it' was glued on before bastions became actual units) - would I prefer an aegis - maybe, but I don't have one of those in my dining room. What don't you like about an AV14 fortified position in an objective game?

I'd kindof prefer switching in a master of the forge for the captain as he's really only there for the 2+ and the Master of the forge is cheaper and the conversion beamer, if I got ruins I could pop the scouts in as well that would be an even bigger bonus.

I'm not a fan of putting a couple of dreads or transports down for turn 1 if your gonna do it I think you need a lot to try and split fire otherwise they'll get melted and you've wasted your time - there's too may big guns for the lower AV. AV 13+ I believe is the only way to gun unless your spamming the vehicles to make sure some get through.

I've also worked a Baal predator into this list. I'm gonna playtest nids unter the tournament rules at the weekend and see how uch of a disadvantage the additional killpoint VP's would put me in first though

I'm still a bit confused really.

As a general question, why the storm talon if you have two storm ravens?

"The idea with the furioso is to provide an assault 2 S6 rending flamer to the back lines on turn 1, hence the drop pod rather than a storm raven -"

I'm struggling to remember a Furios's stats and rules in comparison to a standard dread. But I seem to recall they are a lot more points? I remember they are great at CC, but will it ever get into it? As per your plan you will flame one unit (if you end up close enough) and then hope to survive? My guess that the two units combined is about 170 points minimum? Seems like a lot when you may be able to do the same roll for 140 odd.

Forgive my ignorance, but can the storm raven start the game in skimmer mode on the board?

"the tactical squad and bastion are there to defend backfield objectives "
Does make sense. AV14 is hard to knock out. I wouldn't bother trying! Does seem over kill though. Especially if you are taking the guns just because. Are you not able to simply state the machine spirit is dead? Alternatively you could make the ADL for about £3 out of foam board and PVA.

What don't you like about an AV14 fortified position in an objective game?

Nothing in particular. It just seems a really expensive cover save for a tactical squad with 4 shots.... Especially when more often than not the armour save will be better than the save it generates anyway. Especially when 2 troop choices are 5 man assault marine squads. Naturally you will pick the weak targets however they are only 5 man squads (assuming no crashes or deep strike issues). Seems over kill on the 10 man when you could just get defense line and add 80 points worth of assault marines. If you were IG on the other hand this would be HUGE! Also if this is Rellic or kill points wouldn't this not help a great deal?

I'd kind of prefer switching in a master of the forge for the captain as he's really only there for the 2+ and the Master of the forge is cheaper and the conversion beamer

The conversion beamer is really useful but an be avoided Alternatively add the artiface armour to the captain and he still have the 2+ 4++ he has in termie armour for 20 points less. Yes you have no power fist, but it seemed like you were taking them for the sake of it.

if I got ruins I could pop the scouts in as well that would be an even bigger bonus.

Add camo cloaks and they would get a 3+ in the bastian wouldn't they?

I'm not a fan of putting a couple of dreads or transports down for turn 1 if your gonna do it I think you need a lot to try and split fire otherwise they'll get melted and you've wasted your time - there's too may big guns for the lower AV. AV 13+ I believe is the only way to gun unless your spamming the vehicles to make sure some get through.

I can't disagree with that. Similar comments to way I was questioning your dread. It was more for the spare points that I mentioned it. They could be anything.

just wrote a massive reply to that hit post and it all disappeared... /sigh

I'll have another go tomorrow

As a general question, why the storm talon if you have two storm ravens?

because A) it's another flyer B) it's fast attack so counts ad scoring for the scouring mission - scoring flyerrs are a pain the ass!

Flyers can't start on the board in hover.

The furioso is essentially a suicide unit there to take out backfield heavy weapons teams trun 1 - I'd like to have something else coming down with it - sterguard or something like that but was struggline for the points as I'd also need a 3rd pod coming in ot make sure 2 come down turn 1. The Baal will be there as well if I go first (12" scout move - 12" move - flame, unless I misunderstand vehicle rules, which is very very possible). The furioso and pod are 160 points - what would you use that's cheaper without losing impact? The furioso also has a melta - I wanna know I can take something with skyfire (vehicle or infantry) out if I need to.

Does make sense. AV14 is hard to knock out. I wouldn't bother trying! Does seem over kill though

This encourages me to take it more - it's 130 pts with the icarus and if people can't or don't even try to kill it that's my objective safe, the occasional fast units will make a break behind, but fast generally = weak - I'm playing WYSIWYG avoids any issues, I think they may allow me not to but if I start I'll do it more and there'll be weirdos that don't like it.

Alternatively you could make the ADL for about £3 out of foam board and PVA.

I'm still me. The big pile of unfinished terrain in my back room is there and reaslisticaly I'm not making more anytime soon!

It just seems a really expensive cover save for a tactical squad with 4 shots....

Its has a transport capacity and clocks line of sight - it's not about the cover save

Also if this is Rellic or kill points wouldn't this not help a great deal?

There is no Kill Points mission (although every game awards bonus points for them) - with the relic I think I have a lot of fast stuff/ droppod - to allow me to challenge for that and I could always hide behind the bastion if I managed to get the relic that far back.

Alternatively add the artiface armour to the captain

Didn't even see the option for it in the dex! - I assume this is different from a WYSIWYG perspective as I have a captain in termie armour model which is why I've slapped it in there.

but it seemed like you were taking them for the sake of it.

kindof - I like to add a 2+ tank to objective squads, have to take an SM HQ to unlock the stormtalon and don't have any of the models for the cheaper termie tanks (sanguinary priest first choice at 85)

Add camo cloaks and they would get a 3+ in the bastian wouldn't they?

yup but ruins would become a 2+ as the master would make them 3+ then the camo makes them 2+

Similar comments to way I was questioning your dread

The dread s AV13 at the front so position it right it will be tough to kill - as with anything in a drop pod though if it survives past the first enemy shootingphase that'll be a bonus

Overall you don't seem very high on the bastion - I think it's a bargain even with the icarus, a 96" lascannon with skyfire and interceptor so I can shoot at enemy reserves in the turn they come in - I'd like more stuff with interceptor - the chance to blow something off the board before it can even shoot is massive to me. I haven't played with one and I'm treating everything in this list as experimental as I'm not very experienced with BA/SM, just eating them nom nom nom! So thanks for your feedback, everything helps!

First of all i need to shush on the bastian. it's a bastain, not the fortress of redemption that I had in my head. I was wondering why it seemed so cheap in points! A bastian for one unit of tacticals hidden at the back is a much better fit in my head than the fortress! What is the capacity of the basitain? Is it one squad? 20 models? etc...

The furiso is a lot cheaper than i thought. This is the hard part o commenting when i don't have access to the codex's. If I am right the furiso comes with a multi melta and ccw with flamer? Is it still the usual AV13 12 10? If it is then a standard dread (in vnailla) is cheaper as I think the drop pod and that lay out is 140 points? But you do lose on frint armour. Im struggling to think of many str 6 guns though so an wodnering whether it would mattet. Assault cannons? They rend on 6's anyway so would pierce 12 or 13 the same. Lootas would pen on 6's rather than glance. But after 3 of them they are the same difference (apart from the explosion!) plus the multitude of guns I am missing. probably worth taking the furiso for the extra few points.

Other than that 5 sternguard with combis (again assuming the same as vanilla)cost 150 plus pod so are not cheaper at all. they are more versatile though due to their lovely bullet selections mixed with combis.!

You hare the sanme understanding of Baal preds that i do. If they have side sponsons i think they can still snap fire too. i think it turns out to be 12" + 12" scout + 12" move on turn 1 + 8" shot. That's a lot of the board covered. It's like the vindicator that can move 12" and still fire the cannon. Just not fair!

WYSIWYG captain. yes, it is not termie armour, it's standard armour as you still get the sweeping advance etc...

I still think this whole list is odd but if you are trying to go flyer heavy, which you obviopusly are, then I don't have too many alternatives. I've not tried to really play with my flyers and certainly not thought of adding allies to get more. i suppose if I was to do a 1750 list using primary SM, flyer heavy and a bastian it would be more like this (from memory)

HQ: librarian with prescience.
Tr: 10 tacitcal marines - missile
Rhino
Tr: 10 Tactical marines - missile
Rhino

Fst: Storm Talon
Fst: Strom Talon

Hvy: 4 missile devs

Bastian with skyfire las

BS
HQ: Librarian - jet pack - prescience
Elie: Sanguinary Priest Jet Pack
Tr: 10 Assault marines
Storm Raven

I think this comes to 1750 on the dot but I have no book here. More thought i'd put that up there as a though process rather than anythin else.

But now it's time for FAIL OF THE MONTH!!!

Alternatively you could make the ADL for about £3 out of foam board and PVA.

What was I thinking......

I do think this list is missing something, and I'm not sure what - I think it's just a lack of killy - my nid lists tend to be focused on total destruction rather than anything else but 've gone more "survivable" here which may be to it's detriment slightly, but yes flyer heavy was the target. I feel like I have to do well in this team tourney - tony has never won a game of 40k and liam is the newest of newbies so I feel like I have to pull something out even if it is gimmicky flyer nonsense - whilst I'm not bothered about coming top 3 or anything I don't want the team to get trounced for 2 days straight and come last!

I stiill need to work out how mnay VP's running nids will cost me on average (due to the gaunt kill point fodder) as it may just be a better plan to stick to what I know. Would it cost me more VP's to switch to an army I'm not as familiar with?

Either way thanks for your assistance - there's still a lot of work to be done on this list if I end up running it!