Nids v Space Wolves

Had another game against Space Wolves the othe day and thought I'd do a quick run down of it on here. Considered doing a full batrep but due to a busy weekend it's easier to do it this way, plus it's more helpful for me to go over what happened this way as I was running an experimental list so it's easier to assess what did well and what didn't this way.

The Lists were 2k and roughly as follow:

Space Wolves

Logan Grimnar + 5 Wolf Guard Terminators
in a Land Raider

Njal Stormcaller with 11 wolfguard (I think)
in a Land Raider Crusader

Blackmane fella with 7(?) Bloodclaws in a drop pod

Dreadnought

Predator

I believe that was everything...

Tyranids

Winged Tyrant
Tervigon (HQ)
Tervigon (Troop)
Trygon
2x Biovores
3x 4 genestealers + Broodlord
18 x termagants
3x Zoans in a pod
Doom in a pod
8 x Yrmgarl stealers

It was diagonal deployment and the mission was crusade

The space wolf list didn't seem too scary to me. Essentially it's Special Characters and Land Raiders, with a couple of other sprinklings. I'm not a fan of Land Raiders, I always feel like I can smash them to pieces if I want to, and they aren't something that scare me a great deal.

I rolled everything on the biomancy table apart from the zoans and everyone got Endurance and pretty much nothing else (not exactly a dream scenario as all!)

Turn 1 was the usual Tyranid experience - sit there and get shot at. A couple of wounds got knocked off the Trygon (I don't remember making a single cover save in the entire game now I think about it, FnP wasn't much better). Actually I'm going to do a unit by unit activity breakdown, it's easier and helps me see what did well and what didn't a bit clearer, probably less interesting for you though!

Space Wolves First -

Logan Grimnar + 5 Wolf Guard Terminators
in a Land Raider
- Not sure about Logan Grimnar, haven't seen much out of him seems to be decent but not stand out for me

Njal Stormcaller with 11 wolfguard (I think)
in a Land Raider Crusader
- Jaws of the world Wolf is sick. It doesn't target anything so doesn't need line of sight (also meaning the unit can shoot at and assault something else), no save of any kind is allowed. You draw a 24" line along the board any model hit takes an initiative test which if failed falls into a hole and dies. Meaning my tervigon needed a 1 or a 2 to survive - shockingly it failed and went from 6 wounds to 0 just like that! I'll take my chances on a 3d6 doom check with cover/ invuln over that any day! Also somethig I need to check - can he pop the line on that over his own models first, we decided that as it doesn't target anything he can but weren't 100% sure.

Blackmane fella with 7(?) Bloodclaws in a drop pod
Blackmane is a horde killer gets a ton of power weapon attacks, bloodclaws are pretty much normal wolves nothing too scary but a base wolf is stronger than 90% of other units out there.

Dreadnought
he didn't do much - got locked in combat with the zoanthropes when they dropped and continually counced off their invuln.

Predator
Sat at the back and shot a lot - not much else to say I didn't get near it but it knocked out a unit of stealers that were the only things that got close

Now the Tyranids...

Winged Tyrant
Meh - that's all I really have to say about this guy, for touching on 250 points he's not great. Yeah he can fly but his shooting isn't much to write home about, without any guard to protect him he tends to get shot at fall out the sky and then it's all over. He did manage to finish off a landraider that was on it's last hull point and finish off Njal Stormcaller. In truth he probably did the most killing out of everything in my list (tells you a lot about how the battle went). There's potentailly a place for him, but I think he needs more support - not the list for him to be run in really

Tervigon (HQ)
Tervigon (Troop)
- They are what they are, they've got a bit better in 6th if anything due to smash, they're a nice utility unit.

Trygon
- Got killed on turn 2 I believe, sucked up a fair amount of fire, which is generally what I have him around for and killed about 4-5 wolfguard when he gor assaulted. less impressed with this guy than I used to be, he's ace when he gets into combat but I can't help thinking I might as well just have another tervigon now they are better in combat, they seem to bring more to the table

2x Biovores
- Did literally nothing all game - they never found a viable target, I do like these guys in all comers lists though, not so much against this sort of wolf list!

3x 4 genestealers + Broodlord
- I can't make stealers work for me anymore I tried to infiltrate them - but thats pretty crappy really, one of the broodlords finished off Logan in a challenge, but character hunting is probably all they are good for, they will have to take one round of shooting before combat + overwatch and they just can't take it, I may have to admit defeat and drop stealers altogether

18 x termagants
- fodder, same as

3x Zoans in a pod
I've always been 50-50 on these guys, they tickled a randraider and took 3 hull points off, but as usual after the first drop thats the end of that. I like the utility they have in 6th now they can switch up psy powers but 220 points there in total it's a lot for a unit that will 99% of the time shoot once and then be done with. Fine if they do blow that land raider, odds are always against them making their points back though and that's not the best place to start at.

Doom in a pod
- he is what he is, something to make the other guy poo himself, stealers don't do that anymore really so someone has to!

8 x Yrmgarl stealers
they whiffed horribly - I think they are the only really viable way to use stealers but they sucked hard, not having poision is the thing that really hurts them the most and allows them to have days like they did. Going in with over 20 attacks on Logan and his terminators and killing 2 before the unit is wiped out - not really what your looking for from your elite dedicated CC unit touching on nearly 200 points.


Result - was a win for the Space Wolves, it was a close one in the end, and had my stealers made it to the central objective on turn 6 I could have pulled out the win but it wasn't to be.

I'm really not comfortable with 6th still - forgot a lot of rules as we went along, mainly It Will Not Die! - didn;t roll for it until turn 4 - forgot it existed!

I'm generally struggling with my nids in 6th though, can't find a place for them, the things that made them the army I loved got hit (stealers largely) and there is a lot of old tat in that codex that is completely unworkable or no better than a coin flip depending who you come up against. I'm kinda feeling like I've exhausted the codex a bit as well, it may well be time for them to sit on the shelf for a little while.

I'll have to throw another test list up in the air I think, one with a bit more cohesiveness than this one, which was more a random assortment of stuff I wanted to give a go; but me and my nids just haven't been getting along too well lately...

Just checked the Jaws thing and it does need Line of Sight to it's first target so we did that bit wrong! add it to the list of rules I got wrong:

- Forgot to enforce Shadow in the Warp when he rolled the psychic test for Jaws (the whole reason I put my tyrant where I did)
- Forgot some of the Hammer of wrath hits from my MC's
- Completely forgot to run any of my models
- Forgot it will no die until turn 4
- Night fighting roll on turn 1 (don't think I've ever remembered that one
- Look out sir on the broodlords

It's definitely more me than the nids - just change those few things and it would have changed the game a lot. I may have to switch to ultra-nerd ode and start making notes of things I need to remember at this rate!

Adam (the Space Wolf guy) if your floating around the forum be interesting for your take on it as well

Howdy - thanks for this, helped me with my up coming battle with the Orksies.

I feel 6th has batted Nids pretty bad,

I round up a few of my thoughts,
no allies
no fortifications
no proper flyers, flying MC are poop as far as i can tell - we have to take a grounding test everytime they get hit, so gretchin can cause these guys to crash and suffer a strength 9 hit ...... gretchin.....killing a flying winged beastie!!!
Genestealers massively nerfed - now so not worth the points - poof i arrive and get the shot to nid-bits before i can do anything.
Fleet now sucks bottom hole!

I agree Doom to make the enemy poop themselves, but he can be insta killed by stength 8.

I've been playing with the idea of a harpy - flying MC but twin linked cannons - stanglethorn for the pinning (keepinbg those pesky orksies in place) or Heavy Venom Cannons for strength 9 BattleWagon popping. But the Harpy nseems a bit squishy with only Toughness 5, 4 wounds and a 4+ Save. Doesn't feel very MC.....got any thoughts?
anyways Cheers for the post made interesting reading

Had a few more thoughts, and it looks a bit bleak for the Nidz

No anti aircraft weaponary, can't fire emplacement weapons - damn Opposable thumbs!

No grenades

No vehicles (drop pod doesn't count as the thing can't move once its there! though it does have tentacle goodness)
Yes we have MC but they still have to fot slog! none of this send a land raider across the board disembark a bunch of assault terminators and charge the enemy! And you can't charge from a drop pod!

No melta weapons

On top of all that hardly any armour! nothing to withstand shooting from most guns the imperium have to throw at us!!

Am i the only one thats starting to thing tyranids are playing a different game to the rest of the armies???

I demand a new codex now!!!! Buff me !!!!!

all this is true, but they have their strengths!

they are one of 2 dedicated horde armies, which more elite armies find tough to break down without list tailoring
lots of MC's with really nasty abilities (trygons, zoanthropes, doom etc) - id kill for an Ork MC! (hello IA8 squiggoths!)
lots of drops pods which if used correctly are lethal delivery systems, which dont scatter, not to mention those that come from underground!
you can spam 30 strong units, and generally are like orks in that you have soooo many priority targets and those that arent a priority are still really tough!

the landraider is a very expensive delivery system indeed, with termies i think its 500-600 points, and i just dont think they are *that* good - rather a trygon and deep strike termies every day!

chaos i think have eveything - MC's, armour, horde and elite! lucky them!

Yes i know i should be working boss, but you encourage me to start posting you created this beast!

Drop pods are poo - whilst yes i can delivery a squad of 20 into the heart of your army, once they are there they are far too vulnerable as they can only shoot or run and not launch and assault.

The have got to sit there for a turn waiting to be slaughtered. yes this will divert attention away from sometihng else, but they are still an easy kill for a turn. If they have no guns (genestealers/hormugaunts) i might as well eventually paint them with little targets on their heads! tee hee hee.

The other problem with drop pods is you have to rely on your reseve roles ........whilst you can buff this slightly with warlord traits and Tyrand/Swarlord/Lictors - you have the additonal points cost of buffing these, just to bring in a unit to get nuked out in the open.

Wonder what would win land raider vs trygon. Surely the lard raider can just drive away from the trygon once it has appeared! (as it can't charge) stay out of range and shoot it to death ?????


God I'm ranting!

Yes MC are good and Nids have a lot of them, just back in the day i'm talking way back in i think 2nd Nidz had a 6" move compared to most other armies with a 4" move (god im showing my age here......) The extra mover back then made up for the lack of vehicles - you could get to them quick than they could get to you.


Just saying i think we have some large holes compared to other armies. I don't really care that much at the end of the day still love playing the little alien critters that shoot snot at people!
Just wish we had options that didn't cost an arm and a hoof in the form of MC's

In terms of the Harpy, I don't like it one bit. As you say only T5 and 4 wounds, it's been given skyfire but it's guns are blast so can't hit flyers anyway, all day long I though it was going to get a different gun in the FAQ to give it a purpose. My hope is they are holding back on the model as it has been given a new gun (there is picture of a new nid gun in the BRB) and it'll get released with new rules in White Dwarf (along with genestealer cults!!!)

I think my problem has been overthinking it. Yes there have been changes but they aren't that massive to the majority of units. Stealers got hurt pretty badly. Ymgarls still have the potential to be badass 4+ armour and the ability to morph to T5 give them a nice survival rate against overwatch.

At the end of the day the core of dex (those 3 good units) are still good. Hive Guard ignore Jink saves on flyers, a tervifex (tervigon with crushing claws) can get up to a maximum of 9 S10 AP2 attacks with warpspeed.

The units that sucked before, still suck but the core is still there. I think I have been looking too hard at what new shiny toys might be the new awesome unit and forgot that the reasons they were poo are still there.

Lictors (the most feared gentically perfect assassins in the universe) will still stalk there target popping up behind them and stand there and get shot to death before attacking. Fex's are still overcosted, they provide our only half decent form of anti-air with 12 s6 twin linked shots but come in at 200 points with 4W and a 3+ save. All those mutli wound T4 still as to be ID'd - which I woundn't mind if I wasn't paying about 45pts+ each.

Anyway parents have just arrived so better stop my rant there for now

Howdy back again - been doing some thinking Mr Stryph, I'm surprised you didn't take any hive gaurd in your list I would have though some Strength 8 assualt 2 ignoring cover saves would have been useful.

Anyway I never realised how good Crushing Claws are now, with Smash attack.

From the FAQ for the rule book.

Q: The rulebook says that you halve your Attacks characteristic if
you perform a Smash attack. However, if a Monstrous Creature has
an uneven number of Attacks, (3 for example), but has charged that
turn, does it receive the bonus Attack for charging before or after
halving its Attacks? (p42)
A: You halve the model’s Attacks characteristic first, then
apply any additional modifiers. In the example above, the
model would halve its Attacks first (rounding up to 2), then
receive a bonus Attack for charging.


So correct me if I’m wrong : You would then roll for the extra crushing claws last as per the above? So a tervigon using a smash attack with crushing claws would halve it’s 3 attacks to 2 (rounding up) get +1 attack for the charge. And then D3 extra attacks (crushing claws) – striking at initiative 1 and re roll penetration.

So, base 2 smash attacks – 3 on the charge and then between 4 and 6 depending on the claws?

So 4 and 6 Strength 10 attacks, with a re-roll for penetration. Thats some good tank popping granted i have got to hit and +25 points but that ain't too bad. Also insta deathing anything with Toughness 5

I like the use of your Broodlord - never thought about using him in a smal squad. You can also swap out his powers thoguh your screwed if you get a shooty one, bloody BS 0. How good are the normal powers????

Let me know your thoughts Cheers!

Normally I would never leave home without my hive guard - I was trying to be different though throwing some experimental/fun thing into the mix. There a lot of nice stuff in that elite slot which I barely ever use- deathleaper for instance, never used him but he got a bit more interesting in 6th edition - I'm not sure I'll ever find a place for him though what with zoans, hive guard, ymgarls and Doom all elites as well.

Thats exactly it with the tervigons - if your rolling on biomancy with them as well theres a chance of getting warp speed which would add another D3. The only downside is they are always I1 with the claws, so theres always a chance it'll go down in combat before it hits but when it hits things go splooch (I imagine thats the noise they make anyway)

Normal powers are pretty good - lowerleadership of a unit and can lock a model down in CC so it can't attack (hello challenges) - If I ever run them again it will be solely for this, to assassinate enemy characters - switching the power in (as fun as it was rolling on psychic tables as much as I did with that list) just isn't worth it IMO

I agree everything good seems to be elite - and they tend to be the things i want to try out but never get a chance.
You expose yourself horribly if you don't take Zoans and Hive Gaurd, you are then left with nothing that can pop tanks reliably.

So if you always take Zoans and Hive Gaurd you only ever have 1 slot left, to try smoething else (Doom, Lictors, Deathleaper, Venomthrope, Ymargl and not forgetting Pyrovores)

Have you ever managed to use any of the lesser Elites? have you or anyone ever found a use for Pyrovores?

The only way round this i can think of is be taking another tyranid force as an ally. (which i'm not even sure is possible.)

So 1 HQ 2 Troops 3 elites and then another 1 HQ 2 troops and another 3 elites.

I miss the old edition i used to play you didn't have elites - you just had to spend 25% on HQ 50% on troops (which included Zoanthropes) and 25% on Heavy.

Venom Cannons were great fun in the past - you used a salvo template. and Barbed Stranglers caused insta death when it penatrated a model. Consequently the model then exploded outwards and trapped models with its flailing tendrals!

Splooch - good noise!

I might strick with the normal powers for the broodlord in my first outing then. Use him for character assaniation!

I used to run a venomthrope a fair bit to help cover my MC's mainly.

Cover is much easier to get for the big guys now though. They are effectively infantry in terms of their cover saves so you can just plop them in area terrain or even part a unit of hive guard in front of them to get a cover save (the gaps between models in a unit count for cover saves so you can effectively pop a ruler across the models heads to work out if they have the 25%).

The other boosts they give can be handy but realistically there aren't that many armies that will charge nids, even less in 6th!

can't ally with other nids unfortunately - you have to go after the 2nd FOC at 2k to get more slots open.

Lictors I ran once in a game against Alec in 5th - I see no use for them, it's theoretically possible they could do more now they have a longer charge though, just don't think the odds are exactly in their favour.

Pyrovores are terrible - mainly due ot the fact they are in the elite slot than anything - stick them in heavy and maybe I'd give them a whirl. There's going to be less guys in transports and more hidden in buildings etc so the pyrovore would be a good addition for that - but then you lose an elite slot, if you know your facing green tide orks or blob IG then maybe - but they still wouldn't be my first choice even then!

You played any games under 6th yet? What sortof lists did you run?

cover is such a big deal in 6th, id say that pyrovores went up a notch - drop podding in specifically to take out units in cover, such as lootas, eldar rangers, guard bunkers etc, is pretty devastating.

ok so theres only three of them, but thats 3 heavy flamers, and with a good target they are quite likely to make their points back?

admittedly they are overpriced, but i think they have their place.

TBH i haven't actually played a game of 6th here though i have been brushing up on my rules! I have unfortunately also only played 1 game of 5th so I am still really noobish.

My first outing will be against Homowan and his rather Nasty Orksies, I suspect he will have an abundance of nid burgers on the BBQ

I can see a use for pyrovores possible against orks or gaurd, but with only a maximum squad of 3 its seems a waste to use up an elite slot on them. It would be far better if they were heavy support.

Have you used canifex's at all? is there a good set up for these, i read somewhere once someone had a good set up by taking 3 of these all with 2x scything talons rerolling the misses on the WS3. You could arm them with bio plasma for a shooting weapon but that makes a squad of 3 540 points which is a scary lot of points for 3 models.

I can see the point in taking them for a heavy venom cannon but thats 185 point per model, and they only have BS 3. I hate to say it but you get twin linked heavy venoms on a harpy for less , with all the movement benefits and spore mine dropping. just wish the harpy had better armorm and toughness.

I tried lictors in my 5th battle - granted hobo was contoling them at the time as i was out getting the chinese takeaway - by the time i got back they had been slaughtered. So i too have had no luck with them and expect even less come 6th.

Have you used Raveners ?? they have been interesting me deep strike and devourers ? they have 3 wounds a peice which aint too bad really. Have you used these yet??

Even if they were in heavy I' not sure I'd take them - Biovores are so much more fun in that slot, popping a triple large ordnance blast over the top of a ork mob... yes pls! Pytovores can be situationally useful but are just a likely to drop in the pod and scatter out of flamer range - we're the only codex that can only disembark 2 inches.

fexes are just over costed period (they have doubled in cost from the previous codex) - if your looking for CC options then the Trygon is better higher initiative, dual scything talons, more wounds, more attacks, fleet, the 1 thing the fex had over the trygon was strength - that went with the smash rule. For me even the tervigon beats the fex as a CC MC with smash as it has so much more to bring to the table along with it's new found CC ability.

I don't rate venom cannons - poor choice for anti infantry and poor probability of doing much against vehicles - sure they got better in 6th but not by much, they still have a -1 modifier so your only ever really gonna knock off a hull point - can't blow it up.

Fexes are out best anti-air option (outside flying MC's) though with 2 sets of twinlinked brainleech devourers that's 12 twinlinked S6 shots - it's a hefty price tag for that setup though - I'm still on the fence as whether it's worth it or not, although I'm leaning more and more towards not...

Only way I've run raveners is with rending claws. I'm not a fan of deepstriking them, just not my thing and adding guns to a CC unit eans they are less likely to make the charge. If you want to deepstrike with guns then warriors or devourer gaunts are probably a better way to go. When I've used them I've run them up the field with a trygon following closely behind. My logic being that this is the best defence against ID weapons - sure you can ID my rav's if you want but the trygon will only eat you if you do... they are a unit that has got a bit better in 6th

How come we can only disembark 2" i thought it was 6". Going have to re-read my codex! (for the 50th time.)

My thoughts on the rsavener was by giving them devourers they have assualt 3 and are a little more survivable than gaunts with thier 3 wounds. Toughness 4 and a 5+ Save. Or a couple of spinefist (which i have never rated.) That and you don't have to pay for a pod???

Fex's are just too much really. I want to use them but can never find the points to justify one.
Venow Cannons would be better if they wern't blasts! I thought Venom cannons wouldn't be too bad against infantry - granted they are blast but would be good against Orks/Gaurd less good against marines etc. I don't worry too much about the -1 to the damage chart - its negated against battle wagons by the +1 for being open topped - Its the Stength 9 for tank poping really.

I hope we get a codex soon, though i think it will be Tau next

I just wish Trygon/Mawlocs weren't so expensive - i love the mawloc terror from the deep - he just needs a shooty attack for once he pops instead of leaving him stranded.

Yeah the 2" is in the dex under the transport spore special rule unfortunately! - Still don't understand the FAQ ruling saying that primes can't attach to squads going in pods - seems an unnecessary limitation to me!

Well a rav with a devourer is about the same as 3 gants carrying the - you get 3x the shots with gantn and I'd say the survivability is 50-50 between the two, yeah the rav has a better save but it can be ID's to so we'll call it a wash.

If you want shooting they just aren't the way to go - warriors in a pod are the same price if you have 4, have a better save (big difference between a %+ and a 4+ when you consider weapon AP values out there) and the pod is no joke in itself - that S6 shooting always seems to kill something for me. If you want shock trooper type shooting then you won't get better than gants with devourers - they demand attention due to the sheer amount of shots they put out there - they make ork shooting look puny
spinefists are better for ravs than anything else as they get more shots and being twinlinked the crappy BS they have is ofset a bit

Ravs are CC shock troopers - they'll hit hard and first (against most things) but will more than likely melt *if* they get attacked back - especially if there is a fist still standing, wound allocation helps out a bit with that as it give you a chance to mitigate it.

I think the problem with venom cannons is just that we have better... we have plenty of infantry killers, just about everything in the dex does that. and realistically in 6th weight of fire against vehicles is king, you gotta knock off hull points and the VC is only ever going to take off 1 - that's where the dual devourer winged tyrant comes into it's own - and the reason i'm not ready to write it off yet.

We're still about 2 years away fro a new dex I think - we're only 2 years into this one, it's just an unfortunate dex as there is a lot of stuff in there that is overpriced or useless and it's limiting unless you enjoy losing (badly)

i'm always tempted to try a couple of mawlocs but they're just such a gamble!

Stryph wrote:

If you want shock trooper type shooting then you won't get better than gants with devourers - they demand attention due to the sheer amount of shots they put out there - they make ork shooting look puny

Id have to disagree there mr stryph

if we ignore the rest of the 'dexes, and concentrate on boyz vs devourer gaunts, you have the main issue of cost.

• i recall from storm that a devourer gaunts cost 10 points and are S4, ap- assault 3. so, for 200 points you get 20 x 3 = 60 shots
  
• excluding the nob for this argument, orks are 6 points and their guns are s4, ap6, assault2. so to get 60 shots you need 30 boyz = 180 points. as we have spare points, well chuck 3 big shootas in there too to make it 195 with s5 ap5 assault 3 guns

so in a straight shootout, 30 boyz with their ap will far exceed 20 devourers in performance, for 20 less points! (dunno about range - orks are 18" - are devourers longer?)

of course ive limited you to 20 gaunts there, and you could outshoot us if you went a full squad of 30, but then that 300 points, so to match you on points id be able to buy 20 more boys.

so at that point id have 50 boyz with 100 shots, and youd have 30 gaunts with 90
so theres a slow exponential curve in orks favour between our too grunts

do you know, i truly truly believe that ork are at least in the top 3 shooty armys in the whole game.
and that only based on the guard's and tau's reputation (in the new year the latter will be from experience though, woo hoo!)

next we should compare hormagants to slugga boyz!

edit: what i havent mentioned actually is your higher ballistic skill, which does sway it back inyour favour. but with our +1 tougness that disappears, not to mention 10 more wounds (boyz), ap6 and 20 point discount (or 5 points with 3 big shootas), its still (just) a net win for the orkses!

Stryph wrote:

We're still about 2 years away fro a new dex I think - we're only 2 years into this one, it's just an unfortunate dex as there is a lot of stuff in there that is overpriced or useless and it's limiting unless you enjoy losing (badly)

Many dexes before the nids! Every army is still playable with a skilled general who understands the lists ofcourse, but the Eldar, Dark Angels, Tau, Orks and Templars are all 4th edition. Space Marines, Guard and even space wolves are all older than Nids. I think two years is about right as a guess.

Eldar are in the same boat though. So much is either under priced (think Eldrad at 210), over priced (a normal pimped out farseer is 195 - so why wouldn't you get Eldrad!), with surprisingly little to kill marines and without any fliers at all. Bad though your one is (harpy?) it is still a flier!!

the orky comparison was merely an analogy - devourer gants are pricey and extremely fragile but they're an effective shock troop (especially in a pod) in the context of the dex.

I llike ork shooting and agree it's up there - you suffer on range and a strong long rage list can cripple you before you really get going - but every army has a weakness in one way or another.

Last I heard the rumour was eldar for next year, but these have a tendancy to change (which I am more and more attributing to GW disorganisation rather than inaccurate sources). When asked a new nid dex at the open day Phil Kelly said he had some really great ideas for it (meaning it hasn't therefore been started yet) and Matt Ward said nids suffer from not having anything with an AV value (god I hope he doesn't get his grubby mits on it and give nids tanks...).

I've heard people mention a 4 year cycle a few times hence the 2014 guesstimate, but there are so many dexes to come before us I'm not exactly hopeful! How may dex's do GW actually release in a year? 2-3 tops...

And yes every army is playable there are just different levels of playable. Nids are limited in choice by cost and effectiveness etc - it kindof gives it a shorter shelf life as you run out of army builds to field. 6th edition took more units away for e than it gave me. That's not so much a gripe (it is and it isn't) as it is a reality. What I like about the chaos codex is how flexible it is - HQ's moving the FOC around opening up lots of different builds and options

I understand what you mean, a lot of units lost effectiveness under the new system. Transports took a massive hit and genestealers took arguably the biggest, simply be use you could build an entire list around them. Not as effective any more. Of course some became better in weird ways. Who would have thought charging an ork troop choice was to be feared due to the guns, the guns!

I've never believed too many Internet sources. I expect GW are better than people expect. The sheer scale of stock needed for a release means they have 3-6 months leaway befor they issue things. At present its 4 codex's,4 fantasy books plus second wqves/expansions/random (im sure dreadfleet is a fun game but really? What a waster of an effort).

I'm almost probably bitter as i beat all the new codexs and lose to the older ones,lol

Decided to look up the recent GW codex releases.

The current record for 40k codexes is 3 in a year. That was 2011 and 2010 (and the 2011 figure includes a WD sisters release no I'm not sure it counts), so I'm not hopeful with the latest 4 year cycle theory as it's not mathematically possible by that release rate. Theres only been Chaos this year (Necrons never feels like 11 months ago!) but that's due to the new rulebook so I'll let them off

Hopefully they'll up the mini releases in WD that'd help the older (or crappier) codex releases to live a bit longer.

Transports are fairer with hull points, they are now transports rather than the mobile gun platforms for silly few points you could use them as before, so it's less they got hit and more were made to be exactly what they are meant to be. Other AV stuff got hurt more badly (CC dreads) Hull points are very case by case to me.

I agree with Stryph - i feel there is a limited no. of builds for the nids - i want to "try" some of the other beasties - but I have to sacrifice something like Zoanthropes / Hive Gaurd which are the only realy choices for popping armor.
Genestealers /Lictors are pony now I have a whole load of (old)models which i won't use as they don't fit into a regular army list. (Seriously i have loads of genestealers)

I quite like hull points now - means if i constantly plink a Landraider/Battlewagon eventually i will wreck the thing.

Maybe with the increased popularity they will get a higher turn around on updating the codex's maybe squeezing 4 into a year.

By making minatures redundant (with a new rule book) or just over priced and poo in a codex - no-one is ever going to buy the models as they will never realistically use them. So they will never make any money on them surely ????

Ideally they want to make every minature useful in an army so there is loads of builds and variety. (And people spend money on buying every unit in the codex)

I'm not sure making every unitviable has been the policy previously - more like a rotation of units.

Last codex it was the Carnifex that was the go to guy, so the next one they double the cost and bring out the Trygon and Tervigon which are both the go to guys for this dex, so you have to buy the new kits! Maybe I'm just old and cynical...

I really want to use Lictors, love the idea of them, they need a "pop up in the middle of a unit" rule like one of the GK assassins has (callidus?) that would be epic!

I think stealers are going to stay dead for a while yet... they're gonna need a new way to avoid getting shot. Hormagants or gargoyles (brood nest or Harridan model with the next dex I guess) will probably be the new black in the next codex which may give them something to hide behind....

There's a lot of chatter about White Dwarf releases for various codexes, it can't all be nonsense surely, there's too much of it!

i do often think they should release upgraded rules to balance armies rather than just hold out for a codex. when something is clearly broken its broken - i agree with storm - a broken unit (such as lictors lets say) wis basically a dead duck for the 4-6 years of that codexes life, and leads to dissatisfied gamers.

i think they should make more of the FAQs and actually balance codexes in 6 monthly FAQ cycles. perhaps re-relasing new codex versions, clearly version controlled every year or two. surely thats easy enough! (and would generate more income on certain models and new codexes!

maybe the digital codex eras may make that a possibility!