Tyranids v Chaos Space Marines

The swarm shifted as one. Praxis had eluded consumption, but defeat is a concept unknown to the hive mind. It is a process, the destruction of a first wave is but a delay, the second will be stronger. The infestation had begun, the seeds has been planted Ymgarl Genestealers were at work on the surface, infiltrating the enemies encampment as the rest of the Swarm Gathered. Praxis would be consumed, it was simply a matter of time.

Pitched Battle – The Relic

Tyranids:
HQ
Hive Tyrant – Armoured Shell, Lash Whip & Bonesword, Twin Linked Devourers
Tyrant Guard – Lash Whip
Tyranid Prime – Devourer, Lash Whip & Bonesword
Elites
Hive Guard x 3
Hive Guard x 2
Ymgarl Genestealers x 8
Troops
Termagants x 12
Termagants x 11
Tervigon – Crushing Claws, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, 3 powers
Tervigon – Crushing Claws, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, 3 powers
Heavy
Trygon – Toxin Sacs
Biovores x 3

Chaos Space Marines:

HQ
Kharn the Betrayer
Daemon Prince - Daemon of Khorne- Wings- Power Armour- Burning Brand of Skalathrax

Troops
10 Khorne Beserkers - 1 Champion with Power Weapon (Sword) & Gift of Mutation - 9 Chain Axes
10 Khorne Beserkers - 1 Champion with Power Weapon (Sword) & Gift of Mutation - 9 Chain Axes
20 Cultists [90]
- 1 Champion

Elites
5 Chosen - 1 Champion with Meltagun - 4 Combi Plasma Guns
Helbrute - Replaced "Powerfist" with Missile Launcher
Helbrute - Replaced "Powerfist" with Missile Launcher

Heavy
Defiler - Battle Cannon- Reaper Autocannon- Heavy Flamer replaced with Power Scourge - 2 "Power fists"
5 Havocs - 1 Champion - 4 Missile Launchers, 2 of which also have Flakk Missile

Warlord traits were rolled and were meaningless.

I rolled on biomancy with all my psychers and got:

Hive Tyrant – Iron Arm & Warp Speed
Tervigon #1 – enfeeble, endurance, leech life
Tervigon #2 – endurance, haemorrhage, warp speed
Tyranids won the roll off and decided to go first deployment was as follows:



I set up in my base formation – Hive Tyrant with guard and attached prime in the middle flanked on each side by the Tervigons and hive guard squads. The Biovores hidden in the ruin at the back and The Trygon held back in reserve

The crystal in the middle is the relic,
The beserkers went behind the 2 hellbrutes, the rear squad holding Kharn the Betrayer, havocs in what is actually going to be some tyranid spore chimneys when I ever get round to finishing them, deffy is hiding on the bad company box (this is a forest) with the cultists and chosen on the opposite flank. The daemon prince is in the corner down by deffy hiding out of shot.

Sneaky Chaos managed to roll up and steal the initiative

Chaos proceed to all move up the field toward the relic, Deffy found the forest he had hoped to be his sanctuary from the Hive Guard actually contained giant man eating (or in this case daemon vehicle eating) plants and proceed to tiptoe out and away from the forest to somewhere a little safer.



Chaos unleashed it’s firepower upon the tyranids. The Defiler, Havocs, and both Hellbrutes all opening fire on the Hive Tyrant unit, the hive tyrants shell proved a tough nut to crack with some hits also being look out sir’d onto the Tyrant Guard resulting in 1 wound on the Tyrant and a dead Tyrant guard, the defilers blast scattered slightly off target and took 2 Termagants down in the process. The Daemon Price flames across the front line of termagants frying 4. Leaving the Tyranid front line slightly sparse, for now....



And so it was the Tyranids move, with the amount of firepower absorbed by the Tyrant I was feeling pretty good with rather few casualties. The Hive Tyrant proceeding to roll up Iron Arm moving to S7 T9 the Tervigon on the left putting endurance on the Tyrant and the one on the right putting endurance on himself. The Tyranids then began their Advance up the field – both Tervigons spawning and neither rolling doubles. The Biovores were the first to unleash hell and unleash hell is exactly what they did killing 12 of the cultists and 1 chosen with their multiple barrage.



The right hive guard shot at the nearest Hellbrute taking off a hull point. I did not like the Daemon prince sitting so close, and I object to other people trying to kill me with MC’s – THAT’S MY GIMMICK ;-)
The left hive guard, the tyrant, prime, termagants, starting and spawned all shot at the Daemon Prince trying to get him down to be assaulted but unfortunately grounding test after grounding was made, although 3 wounds were taken off in the process! Just couldn’t finish him off! The cultists, having consulted the Chaos Gods while this was going on, decided there were things more scary than an angry Chaos god, turned around and fled back towards their table edge.



At the start of turn 2 the cultists failed their re-group, turning around and fleeing off the table! –FIRST BLOOD NIDS!

The daemon Prince flew over the Tervigon behind the Tyranid lines staying in swooping mode vector striking the Tervigon as he went rattling the big guy and taking off 3 wounds (for some reason I’d though vector strike was only 1 hit – doh!) The glanced Hellbrute bloodraged and moved towards the nearest gant squad, the beserkers moved forward with thoughts of snatching the relic and the chosen moved up in an effort to save their flank after the cowardice of the cultists!

The chosen and hellbrute both unleashed into the termagants decimating the front squad. The Hive Tyrant again found himself the focus of Chaos’ big guns with the defiler, havocs and other hellbrute all piling shots into him and getting 0 through his armour – the defiler shot scattering slightly and knocking out 2 termagants.



After 2 rounds of shooting, not much had really been hurt (by Tyranid standards), The Trygon and Ymgarls buoyed by the success of their brethren decided to both enter the fray – the Trygon deepstriking in by the beserkers and the Ymgarls popping out of the battlefield bad company forest also just by the beserkers, surely their days were numbered...

The Tyrant proceeded to roll up Iron Arm again moving this time to S9 T7 the left Tervigon placing endurance on itself and the right tervigon attempting to put endurance on the Ymgarls but failing!
The Tervigons both spawned up and surrounded the daemon prince – how dare he sit behind my lines! Both squads unloaded into the Prince killing him in the air – never downed but still out! – SLAY THE WARLORD NIDS!

ALL other Tyranids moved forward up the board, the taste of chaos blood was so very close...
The Khore beserkers had strayed a little close to the relic and were sharply blasted off by the nearest squad of termagants. The hive guard oved up from the bastion and wrecked the hellrute by the Trygon.
The Hive Tyrant shot and then proceeded to charge into the hellbrute wrecking it with his hammer of Wrath attack! The termagants attempted to charge the beserkers, failing to make the distance but eating some ice overwatch in the process paving the way for Ymgarls to charge safely and slay 6 of the beserkers in assault.

In my awesomness I managed to remember to roll for It Will Not Die – for the first and last time in the whole game and regained a wound on left Tervigon.



Chaos Turn 3 was rather sharp and I neglected to take any (non-blurry) pics from here I’m afraid . The Chosen moved up rapid firing into the front squad of Termagants killing 3, the Havocs launched their small blasts at the same squad and knocked another couple off, the Defiler fired into the Termagant squad that had moved in his direction killing 2 and the beserkers packing Kharne charged into the Trygon, where Kharne proceeded to challenge the Trygon to honourable combat! I had no idea what to expect from this combat but a lot of high initiative AP2 attacks later I learned that Trygon shouldn’t have gone anywhere near that guy and he was utterly utterly pasted in a single round of combat! The Ymgarls finished off the beserker squad they were in combat with and consolidated towards Kharnes squad.
Kharne would pay for this!!

The right Termagants moved up and grabbed the relic

The right Tervigon proceed to spawn up with the termagants completely surrounding the chosen that had approached them killing enough for a leadership test, which the chosen proceeded to fail and were removed from the table.

The Hive guard on the left shot and blew up deffy .

The teramagants on the left moved up on the last squad of beserkers and proceeded to charge, making it into assault with no overwatch fired. The Ymgarls declared their charge at which point we had a slight disagreement on the rules. Chaos thought they could still overwatch, but I didn’t – a technicality on the point at which you are deemed to be “in combat”. I totally understand the logic of the argument that would allow him to but by the rules as they stand I believe I’m right – even if it kind of doesn’t feel right. We discussed it and I let him roll overwatch against the gants and he didn’t roll a 6 anyway.

From here it was really clean up duty for the Tyranids as the Havocs lurking at the back were shot to death, the Hive Tyrant rolled up Warp Speed, challenged Kharne and sliced his AP2 loving, Trygon killing head clean off his shoulders, the right Tervigon moved up to snatch the relic and Chaos were duly tabled!

Victory for the Tyranids! With the only real casualty being the Trygon but he had gone to better place



Never knew Trygons were Buddhist...

Really need to matt varish that guy....

Really like it mate. The photos and two painted armies really seem to bring something out too!

Bloody nids!

ha ha, yes, very good.

id agree that overwatch was fine, as long as you have no model in b2b, ie you are not physially engaged in combat, then its all gravy!

Was a good game, though there was only ever going to be one outcome no matter how many time you play this match.

Just need to point out:
Kharn was my Warlord and he automatically comes with Warlord Trait - Hatred, which he passes on to a unit he is attached with. (So you didn't get Slay The Warlord until the last roll of the dice Not that it affect the overall result)

What did I learn?
The only viable build for a Daemon Prince is Wings, Power Armour & Daemon of Tzneetch (Can reroll 1's) which increases survivability dramatically.
Kharn is literally a beast, thanks to his Gorechild Axe not being Unwieldly, AP2 and +1 Str for good measure!

Just to clarify on the assualt overwatch bit as I dont think I explained it the best...

The dispute really was whether a unit could overwatch a 2nd unit declaring a charge against them, having chosen not the overwatch a 1st charging unit which had made it in to base.

The underlying question here really being at what point is a unit deemed to be "locking in combat" and therefore unable to overwatch. Tllis essentially arguing (correct me if I'm wrong) - that all phases (moving, shooting, assault) happen simultanously so you not "locked" in combat until the end of that phase.

Me saying that assaults are made on a unit by unit basis (same as moving and shooting) and the second a unit makes it into base to base you locked in combat.

Essentailly I think this boiled down to a lack of a definition of "locked in combat"

I have done a bit of research on this topic.

You cannot over watch if you are engaged

This means that you cannot over watch if you are within 1 inch of an enemy model. The theory behind "choosing" to over watch or not is a gamble. Will unit A make it? If they do, I get no over watch. If they don't and Unit B attacks anyway, you are free to shoot.

from am attackers point of view, you may not know that you are going to charge that unit as well so quite hard to plan.

It's like I said at the weekend. Everything is simultaneous until it's not. (i.e. the assault phase).

Hope this helps!

I completely agree with you. The wording though is that you cannot overwatch if your "locked in close combat" - there is genuinely no wording that defines at what point your deemed to be "locked in combat". It's a gap in wording of the rules.

it's one you could argue either way if you really wanted to to, but you gotta want to...

To be honest I've already had this argument elsewhere - I knew the outcome from the start, the reason I asked to be shown the rule at the time, and cover it again here, it's no use me being the only one that gets it - everyone's gotta go through the journey

I would laugh though if they brought out a FAQ which said we were wrong

Hey I'm still awaiting an FAQ that says my hive guard can wound stuff out of line of sight rather than just hit them - let's have that first!

I'd prefer it to be model by model to be honest, makes ore sense - especially if only 1 model makes it into b2b - I guess they don't due to the scale of 40k compared to skirmish type games - still have to role saves model by model so it's possible I guess...

i must admit till this thread i didnt think i was struggling with this overwatch - and im not 100% im understanding the issue (im so very tired...) heres my take from my angle:

at the start of the assault phase, you declare your charges in turn, which is technically happening simultaneously
if multiple units attack a single opponent, the defender can opt to overwatch one of the units that declared it was charging, when it declares it.

so to me, unless the unit was previously & still is engaged in cc the turn before, there isnt a possibilty of it counting as engaged until after its overwatch.

example.

• termagants and tervigon want to charge ork boyz.
  
• attacker declares tervigon charging in. defender declines to overwatch
  
• attacker declares termagants charging in, defender opts to overwatches against gants
  
• attacker rolls charge range for tervigon, then the gants, and let the slaughter of nids begin!

i cant be arsed to go under the stairs for it, but i think the rule book counts declaring charges, overwatch and rolling distance/fear tests as the "pre-assault phase" now, and a unit cant be counted as locked in combat unless you move past this, which you shouldnt be able to do?

you declare charges, resolve overwatch and do charge distance on a unit by unit basis no simultaneously, exactly as you do with shooting. So if you opt to overwatch the first unit and it makes it into base you lose your opportunity to overwatch at all.

I think Taff's post explains it well, so I won't go over it again in any more detail.

You see to suggest that a unit making it in to b2b wouldn't prevent a unit overwatching - so when do you consider a unit to be locked in combat if it's not the time it is in base to base?

It's poor wording as they never actually tell you when a unit is locked in combat - personally I see it as the time when it's in base to base and can't "escape" the assault - seems logical to me - especially when you read the next sentence about them being too occupied with the assault.

I'm at the I laws at the moment without a rule.book to quote, but you are im combat when you are within an inch of the enemy. It doesn't specify a phase or turn, just within an inch

i know they happen one by one in physical terms, but in real terms i treated this as it actually happening simultaneously as its all part of the same sub phase.

well, regardless, i think ive been doing it wrong, as i was working with the impression that all of this takes place in the "charge sub phase", and you werent locked in combat until that was resolved, and all charges and overwatches were finished and you enter the "fight sub phase" and start rolling the actual combat.

this is because it is precisely that - its the charge, not the combat, so how can you be locked in combat until that combat takes place?

but, the t'internet seems to agree with you guys, so yeah, you can only overwatch any second charging unit if the first charge fails to reach you and you havent already overwatched. (as you can only OW once)

studying the rule book, its actually listed clear as day on pg23, under the heading "Who can fight?". It says in bold:
"Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat"
and overwatch restriction rules on pg21 state:
"...units that are locked in close combat cannot fire overwatch"

pretty conclusive! Clear as day when the rule book is opened

Can't tell you the amount of ties I've looked for the locked in combat bit and not found it - it's even in bold... kudos to you hobo!

Everyone be ready for my numerous vehicle, and other power armour related rules questions that come up after I play with my Blood Angels tomorrow! Stupid vehicles....